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Culture Question

[b]Special notice:

The following content may offend some of the people. If you do not like it, please ignore the postings. If you want to say something, please do so and do not put any foul word or target someone; otherwise prepare to have your postings removed. [/b]



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Since I did not come from Mainland, I have some questions to ask you guys.

(1) What is the definition of 修養 in China?
(2) Did the citizen have public education?
(3) What do they teach in school about courtesy?
(4) Do they have reservation in China? If not, what kind of system do they apply - first come first serve or last come first serve?
(5) Do people wait in line in China? How do the people handle others who cut in?
(6) Will people smoke in a non-smoking area?
(7) Will people talk loud in a quiet place?
(8) Why do they always think others look down on them without asking why?

[[i] 本帖最后由 Smartpo 于 2007-6-29 15:07 编辑 [/i]]

Reply to you points:

1. You only describe the fact but what is the definition of 修養?

3. Please specify if you can. In that case, I will not cause the same mistakes again.

5. It will not matter on large or small populations, if the people know cut in is not good. You will be out of the line either by the enforcer or the public's voice.  

6. It sounds great. Wish every Chinese are like that.

7. "Nobody will bother you." Is that you mean they talk loud in the library or smoking in a no-smoking area and no one will stop them? They do not respect the others? No one teach them courtesy?

8. I do not mean to look down on Chinese or let others do. All I am asking is that "You want some respect from the others; you need to respect yourself first." This is very simple but I do not see many people understand it either. We have a lot of Chinese members in this forum but why there is only a few of us will to help the others?

11. I do not mean to interrupt but would you tell me where foreign student do not need to paid high prices for tuition and books on foreign places? I would like to study there in the future.

12. Sorry to make you upset and I do not mean to. I asked because I want to know you guys more. On the other hand, I encounter a lot of bad ones. I really want to know if there are some good ones still worth helping. People insult, snub, taunt me. Send me a lot of junk email. People think I am getting advantage from them but I did not. I did not own the site or getting any money servicing the site. All the 版主on the forum is a volunteer here.

14.  I am not jealously. I talk negatively because I want to stand up and tell the truth. No one is perfect but you can work close like one. Face the negatives and improve them in the future.  How many Chinese are willing to do that? Hiding in their own corner will not do them any good but to isolate themselves. I told people to improve English and received and insult at the end. What would you say?

17. I think that is a culture issue. Not many Chinese have the courage to date them. English is another barrier for them. On the other hand, I do not see it as sacrifice. A lot of lady willing to marry a foreign person because they want to (a) land in a foreign country, (b) improve their English. It would be the same for the foreign lady married to China. People end up associate with their own group of people because they cannot accept others culture and they want like to protect their own culture.

18. I am upset not because of debts but how other Chinese treat me.

19. This is one of the government policies, I hate most. These is no point to have a lot of professional but do not recognize their knowledge. If you think they cannot communicate with the others, do not know the terms in English. Force them to pass an English or profession test. So stubborn!

20. This is the bad side of Canada system. Slow, bad service and do not have a lot of choices.

21. Many smart and ability student left because Canada companies do not want to go though the hassle with the Canadian immigration. Time is a another factor. Hiring local does not need to wait for a month for work Visa and there is no limitation on how many local you can hire.

22. I do not mean to point out the bad thing but I know that not many Chinese know how to write a proper resume and cover letter. Canadian treats resume very serious. They do not know you; don’t care about your color. They will only look for a professional one with proper grammar and description and there will be no late admission for interview.

23. Contracts may be limited but you can always renew it with the company unless you did something bad. On the other hand you need to get the HRDC approval to extend the work VISA. (This point is not states on you VISA application form. Is a trap for a a lot of Work Visa.)

[[i] 本帖最后由 Smartpo 于 2007-6-29 15:32 编辑 [/i]]

(1) What is the definition of 修養 in China?
“修養”这词和“老 少”一样，没有真正的定义。要看你个人认为，要看你生活在哪个class的世界，和你所接触过，接触到的人。

(2) Did the citizen have public education?
跟zxcvb意见一样。 在一个国家内不可能每个人受到过教育。

(3) What do they teach in school about courtesy?
again, 要看你在什么class.

(4) Do they have reservation in China? If not, what kind of system do they apply - first come first serve or last come first serve?
每个场合都有自己的规矩。

(5) Do people wait in line in China? How do the people handle others who cut in?
看你怎样长大，父母教你什么了

(6) Will people smoke in a non-smoking area?
没碰见过。

(7) Will people talk loud in a quiet place?
没碰见过。

(8) Why do they always think others look down on them without asking why?
只要是人都会对别人所有看法。就像问对方要照片一样。跟所谓的“look down, look up”都一样。

好了，回答完了你的问题该我了。

1。i do not appreciate you ask such questions. i'm sure a lot of people will be offended as well. 所谓“版主”就更不应该乱用权力。-〉this is exactly how i fired my asst-manager a few years ago becoz the person was offending australians.

2。你所问的目的是什么？或者，我来回答这个问题。你所问的问题没有目的。因为他们都在所有的国家内都有所发生。毕竟，世界上没有perfect的国家。外加，你所问的所有问题都是要看你怎样被教育的。在每个社会里的层次上接触到的人都不一样。

3。如果按你的方法把中国分成mainland, HK and taiwan, 那你认为你自己这样贴这份帖子会让mainland的人有哪些想法呢？

4。我随时随地可以转身跑到honkong去，然后再来回答这些问题。那请问，我还算what you so called "from" mainland and answering the questions from there?  提醒一下，不管是来自台湾也好，hongkong也好，mainland也罢，我们都是中 国 人




[size=7][align=center][b]请你删了这份帖子。[/b][/align][/size]

[[i] 本帖最后由 cat_zhou 于 2007-6-28 19:08 编辑 [/i]]

没有想到我觉得很nice的版主会发一个这样的帖子，好像不是很礼貌，
又不知道说什么好，可能每个人的经历不一样想的东西就会差很多吧。

I only saw an asian man peeing to a tree on my campus. He thought nobody see that. But many people were walking on the street.  Although I am not 100% sure he is a Chinese. But based on what he was wearing, I think he is.  In fact, there are many restrooms in the building that is only 20m away.

We represent our country when we are abroad. No matter who you are, what education you have. So if people don't know China, when they see a Chinese's impolite behavior, they would think that every Chinese are similar.  It's unfair, but it's true. It's just the way it is. And it's also the way we (Mainland people) look at people from HK and taiwanese. :disappointed:

Smartpo's questions may offend many people from Mainland, but I don't think he "乱用权力". He just wan t to express his thought, maybe in an offensive way this time. But I do not think it's necessary to delete the post.  I think more people should post their opinions over here.

In fact, Mainland, Hk and Taiwan IS divided into three.  People from these three regions have different passport (as well as many others, eudcation, culture, food, etc.).  Only, people from Mainland are thinking they are all Chinese, and they should be on the same side.  I would say that they originally were , but not any more.  I met many hk people and taiwanese feeling they are different and don't want HK or Taiwan to come back to China if they have a choice. It's truth, a sad truth.

Anyway, I do see smartpo's point.  But I think different people would have different answers to his questions. It's not easy to answer each question though.  But basicly, I think we should follow their rules in their country even though sometimes the rules don't make sense or don't work that way in our own country.  No excuse.

[[i] 本帖最后由 YouRFree 于 2007-6-28 21:11 编辑 [/i]]

[color=DarkOrchid]I agree with YouRFree.  I don't think it is necessary to delete the post.
These questions just need to be examined objectively, without so much subjective feelings.  It's normal to ask questions about culture.  If every society is the same, then there would be no need for sociology and various people related studies.  I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing controversial topics (on an intellectual level).  A lot of topics are controversial and many times society progress forward by examining them ex: human rights and slavery.
Ya, sure many countries share the same problems (ex: manners), but that doesn't mean it's okay and that people should just ignore the problems.  Also, some problems are more serious in one country than another.  
People need to keep an open mind.  As no one is perfect, no country is perfect as well.  Thus, there is room for criticism.  Without knowing what’s wrong, how do we fix things up and move forward?  Of course, not everyone is good at recieving criticisms or be able to handle blows to their ego.
I actually think it makes more sense that there would be differences between people in mainland China, HK and Taiwan.  First of all, they have different political system and history.  Now, is it realistic to say those factors have totally no influence on the people since they all originally came from the same ancestors?  I really doubt that.  I can't speak for HK and Taiwan cuz I'm not very knowledgeable of their system.  However, I definitely think the political system in mainland China influences its education system.
In terms of answering Smartpo's questions, I think it would be hard to come up with accurate answers without conducting any formal research.  There are many factors that need to be considered when speaking from personal experience, such as the sample size, sample diversity, time period and observer's interaction with the sample.  Personal opinions are many times subjective and do not accurately reflect the characteristics of the population (assuming a large population size).
Anyhow, based on my personal experience, I do think people in mainland China (Shanghai) are less polite compare to people in North America.  I’m from there too, but I admit I can’t stand how people always cut in line (even last year when I was there).  People still do rush and fight for seats on the bus (although not in a super aggressive manner).  I don’t recall a time anyone opened a door for another person or receiving thank you comments in a regular convenient store.  I think some of these behaviors are gonna improve cuz of the upcoming Olympics… probably due to government regulations instead of intrinsic motivations.  To end this on a positive side, I’ll say some nice things- many people are fashionable and proud of their heritage.  Other than those, I'll have to think about it...
[/color]

[[i] 本帖最后由 Phi_Nono 于 2007-6-29 00:20 编辑 [/i]]

I would like to share my thought based on what I experienced. I only answer some questions that I know how to answer.
(1) What is the definition of 修養 in China?
No clue. I don't know.

(2) Did the citizen have public education?
This question doesn't seem a question. but my answer is every citizen have right to get education for 9 years and it's free. But in reality, it's not free. And many students have to drop their class because of many reasons.  Go back to countesy.  There are many commercials teaching people courtesy in the local channel in my hometown (I dont' remember CCTVs, maybe somebody else could remind me.).  It's just the same as Hk channels.  So people and gorvenment do care about this.  I feel the commercials do help, but I don't know how much.  But I don't notice there are many this kind of commercial in US channels. (Maybe I am wrong.) Maybe they don't have do this anymore, or maybe they have other more effective ways. But obviously, there is difference between these countries.

(3) What do they teach in school about courtesy?
I don't remember what they teach, but they do teach courtesy in school, directly or indirectly. But I think Parents also have a great resiponsiblity for this. Simple example, if parents love to use foul language, the children will learn that too.

(4) Do they have reservation in China? If not, what kind of system do they apply - first come first serve or last come first serve?
Yes, they have. it is FIFO (in computer language), hehe. But some people don't follow the rule.   

(5) Do people wait in line in China? How do the people handle others who cut in?
Sure, many people do in most cases. Last year, when I went back to my hometown, I waited in a line in a hospital. Somebody cut in, and I just yelled at him and "kicked" him back.  Honestly, if he is stronger than me, I wound't do that. I dont want to get punched. :funk:

(6) Will people smoke in a non-smoking area?
In fact, in many places in China, there is no non-smoking/smoking area, mainly in suburb and country side. So maybe some people don't realize this. Or maybe they don't care. But I think this is no excuse. As a foreigner, everyone is responsible to learn and follow the local regulation and law no matter where he is.  However, I have never seen anyone smoking in a non-smoke area.

(7) Will people talk loud in a quiet place?
I also notice this is a very bad habit for many Chinese (including Cantonese), and Korean.  We like to speak loudly in our own languages in public places. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's not, e.x. in library.  I don't mean that I am exclusive. I sometimes did this too, but I tried to correct this bad habit.

(8) Why do they always think others look down on them without asking why?
No comment, this topic is too big. This looks like a complain more than a question. But I do see the point.

Finally, I feel very sorry about the fact that Smartpo (or maybe other 版主 too) was attacked by junk mails. In fact, these people (版主) have been helping this online community so much. And I am very appreciated as a new comer to Windsor. I hope those junk mails or offensive languages would not affect your guys' enthusiasm of helping each others. Again, people, you have right to speak out, but do not point fingers at others. If you think about the inherent massage of the post (not only from smartpo but also from others), whether auguing in a courteous manner or not in this forum (or in this post) is also a very good example for this topic.  And I think so far so good (execpt for the deleted post which was on "the 2nd floor", I didn't read it. So I don't know) and hope we can keep this.

[[i] 本帖最后由 YouRFree 于 2007-6-29 10:29 编辑 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]cat_zhou[/i] 于 2007-6-28 19:02 发表 [url=http://windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=38715&ptid=14124][img]http://windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
好了，回答完了你的问题该我了。

1。i do not appreciate you ask such questions. i'm sure a lot of people will be offended as well. 所谓“版主”就更不应该乱用权力。-〉this is exactly how i fired  ... [/quote]

Thanks for answering my questions.  

1. I am not happy to do that but what should I do? I grow in HK and came here before 1997. Most of the people said that HK is part of the China but I do not feel it.  We are Chinese but I am not happy on how I was treated since I speak little Mandarin and I do not type Chinese. Will it be a crime on try to express myself here? I want to know why we are Chinese and there are so much different.

所谓“版主”就更不应该乱用权力. Absolutely agree. Is that mean I should not put a statement and start letting people targeting different persons as the most popular post from last year? Please advise if you have a better solution. If I really 乱用权力, you can point it out and I will resign immediately and let some better to take over. On the other hand, I acknowledge that I may need to resign for having this post.

2. Same as ans.1

3. I asked because I want to know more from the people who came from mainland. I did not say that bad persons may not came from taiwan and HK but the bad one I encountered so far was from mainland.  

4. I think that you are overreacted. We are Chinese no matter where we came from. Will that mean we have the same grow up environment? Do we have the same education system, same living style and we use the same law? I want to know why people react so different and they like taking advantage of the same skins.

[[i] 本帖最后由 Smartpo 于 2007-6-29 15:24 编辑 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]khdksfnk[/i] 于 2007-6-28 20:06 发表 [url=http://windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=38722&ptid=14124][img]http://windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
没有想到我觉得很nice的版主会发一个这样的帖子，好像不是很礼貌，
又不知道说什么好，可能每个人的经历不一样想的东西就会差很多吧。 [/quote]

Thanks for your concern and understanding.

I understand the post is rude for some people but I still think I should ask; otherwise I will never understand what you guys think.

As a 版主, I am here to maintain the site and help who is in needed. I am not to here fight or ill-treated. Why should I receive email bomb, not getting a fair trade, having a rude conversion? All I did was to remove advertisement, move the post around, answering questions, providing helps in reality but I do not need piles of Chinese Ads on my email account, want to do fair business like the others, having a nice conversion.

I can only speak limited Mandarin and use limited Chinese tying. Why do those Chinese treat me like an alien? Being nice is crime? Doing the work at your postition is a fault? I am up sad about that. I am a Chinese too. Just grow up in a different environment. :(

[[i] 本帖最后由 Smartpo 于 2007-6-29 15:21 编辑 [/i]]

Thanks for Phi_Nono's and YouRFree's comments, supporting and understanding. I really appreciate it.

BTW, it that a bad idea to leave my email and phone no to public? The one who need helps may either call me or email me for questions.

PS. Where is the original post #2? I did not remove it.

[[i] 本帖最后由 Smartpo 于 2007-6-29 16:18 编辑 [/i]]

I don't think it's a good idea to leave email and phone no. on the web site.  Google can store your personal info.. Junk mail could also come to you because of this. I was wondering whether this is the actual reason you recieve so much junk mail in your mail box.

Yea, the post #2 is gone.

[[i] 本帖最后由 YouRFree 于 2007-6-29 18:46 编辑 [/i]]

[color=DarkOrchid]I don't remember the user ID of post #2.
However, I think it is the person who I previously pointed out to have several Windsor8 ID.
This person has also deleted the content to about 30 different posts, which are under different IDs.
All of those posts with different IDs were removed by each ID on 2007-6-29 within 1 hour of each other. Additionally, all the edited posts share a similar pattern of replacement message.
I recall this user has also previously complained about not being able to delete messages, saying it was an abuse of human rights.

Smartpo:
You don't have to give out your primary e-mail.  Provide an alternative e-mail for those who you do not know.  If people spam the alternative e-mail, you can always abandon it.
For those who send you offensive e-mails, you can either ignore them or kick the reason out of them.  There's a limit to being nice, if others cross that boundary you gotta be tough and even strike (not literally).  When nice people are being taken advantage of, don't compromise, gotta stand up and tell others it's either gonna be your way or the highway.  When others are unreasonable, save your niceness for those who deserve it.  It's a privilege, not a right.
[/color]

[[i] 本帖最后由 Phi_Nono 于 2007-6-30 16:32 编辑 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]Smartpo[/i] 于 2007-6-29 16:07 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=38786&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Thanks for Phi_Nono's and YouRFree's comments, supporting and understanding. I really appreciate it.

BTW, it that a bad idea to leave my email and phone no to public? The one who need helps m ... [/quote]


if they need ur help they will come to u, and ask u for ur phone number..fool, dont just post it up like that

要砍楼么- -
我去PELEE看个鸟回来就有这么个鸟贴- -

猫

11gh:lol
695

Thanks for Phi_Nono and YouRFree's advice. I will thaink about what I should do. Thanks :happy:

[quote]原帖由 [i]Smartpo[/i] 于 2007-6-29 14:26 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=38781&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Thanks for answering my questions.  

1. I am not happy to do that but what should I do? I grow in HK and came here before 1997. Most of the people said that HK is part of the China but I d ... [/quote]


这份帖子在旅游第一天的路上就读了。当时似乎有好多好多的话想说。
但现在无所谓了，一路上来发生了好多奇奇怪怪的事情，让我另有所想。
再跟你debat也没用。改变不了你，更改变不了你的思想。不过嘛，不会give up. 对我来说当更多人团结的时候就会有更多的“成功”。

你的帖子显然有恶意，尽管写了“The following content may offend some of the people. If you do not like it, please ignore the postings. ”，那又怎么样？总会offend ppl.
至于下一句：
“If you want to say something, please do so and do not put any foul word or target someone; otherwise prepare to have your postings removed. ”
这是显示你在势用你的权利，而在同时，你也“targeted” people from the mainland. 如果你想对任何地区的人说些什么，请直说。或者真的想问关于mainland的事，那你也可以换种方式来问。

bottom line:
一位成功的班主应该保持版面和平。而不是去创造arguments。


你的这些问题最终只出现6种可能性：
--------1-------〉使得原本爱HK得人开始鄙视HK的人。（不包括我在内。经管讨厌这份帖子，但它只来自你一个人，而不跟其他人有关。）
--------2-------〉反驳你的帖子（像我这样），认为这个帖子是错的，或者不该发。
--------3-------〉跟你有相同的看法，而去反驳第二条的人。
--------4-------〉感觉在当中。两方都不站。一飘而过或者说两句话，which also equals to 没有看帖子
--------5-------〉过于生气，或者agree. 反正都没有理会（回）你的帖子。
--------6-------〉使得别人怀疑你的人品。

不管怎么样，到最后都会出现争执。因为这6种可能性都已被人达到。
就这么的简单。

[quote]原帖由 [i]rox_sox[/i] 于 2007-7-3 07:20 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=39101&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
猫

11gh:lol
695 [/quote]

闷。。。 你找死。我还说呢，上次谁这么好帮我把第二步给做了。

anyways, 知道了。这个号本来就想关了。别拿我的ip玩就行了 -_-|||
还有，快把咱的qq号密码改回来。要hack换一个号hack行吗？你这样一搞我今天有6个网友发短信结果都进了我爸的手机，然后他又打电话问我怎么回事。闷。
对了对了，哥请你查一个叫什么“鹰毅”的人，在第8里。听说是新出来的高手，如果可以的话让你把他拉到圈子里来。 :)


PS: 您能不能别用code？看起来很累d.............. 咱N页的解码还没背下来呢。直接用文字吧，反正这个bbs的人也看不懂d     哇哈哈

[[i] 本帖最后由 cat_zhou 于 2007-7-5 20:19 编辑 [/i]]

[color=DarkOrchid]Cat MM 很正义公道的.  I understand your concerns and agree with your views to a certain extent.  Justice cannot stand without the truth (真理) though, so I'm gonna share some of my views on that.
“If you want to say something, please do so and do not put any foul word or target someone; otherwise prepare to have your postings removed. ”
I can see how this could be ambiguous.  I agree with the foul language not allowed part, as for the targeted group part, it is debatable based on interpretation.


[u][b]Who is the victim?[/b][/u]
Many people become biased because they have been cheated or taken advantage of.  There are reasons behind their views and the important thing is to bring in the correct perspectives and not to reject the people immediately. It is normal to feel angered at first, but the ultimate goal should be trying to clear up the misunderstanding instead of saying the biased person has bad intensions (恶意).   They might happen to be the victim.  For example, a person who was bitten by a dog grows up to fear and dislike dogs.  When a dog runs toward the person one day, the person spontaneously pushes the dog away.  Should we accuse the person of being mean and evil?  The person is traumatized, and criticizing the person is no more beneficial than trying to understanding and help the person overcome the phobia (bias views).
Thus, I think it would be more beneficial to let people talk about their views in order to bring out the truth (discard invalid views) than avoiding the subject (delete posts) or criticise them harshly.
[u]
[b]Harmony & Controversy[/b][/u]
Harmony is important, that’s where respect comes in (discuss the topic on an intellectual level). To respect means to appreciate, it does not mean to agree with. It's almost impossible to please everyone in most cases anyways.  In addition, controversy is not necessarily a bad thing. As I previously mentioned, it could actually be the force that propels humanity. If everyone just blindly agrees with each other, it could actually be more dangerous when there's a bad apple.
As a result, I don’t think the important thing is agreement among everyone. Instead, I think the important thing is to exchange views and seek insight. In this case, whether it is true or not that people from Mainland China have bad disposition and such.  

[u][b]Avoidance[/b][/u]
Besides, to ignore the question because it is sensitive (or considered offensive by some) would not solve the problem anyways. It's like the Chinese government trying to ban things (aka. [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/thread-10332-1-1.html]manga[/url], lol).  Thus, I don't think simply avoiding the subject (delete the post) is the best approach.  It's gonna come back anyways, so why not work on it now?

[u][b]Key Questions[/b][/u]
How is ignoring a problem/subject any better than thinking about it? How is blind agreement any better than respectful challenge? How is living in a lie any better than pursuing the truth?  Maybe there's room for debate on the last one, haha.

"You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill you stay in wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Matrix? Matrix Reloaded? Matrix Revolutions? The Animatrix?
Ya, I need to get a life now, so I'm gonna head back to some [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/thread-10332-1-1.html]manga[/url]... - -|||
[url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/forum-40-1.html]偶的星球[/url], 偶的[url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/thread-10332-1-1.html]Otaku[/url]太阳系, 哦也.
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[[i] 本帖最后由 Phi_Nono 于 2007-7-5 22:19 编辑 [/i]]

[quote]原帖由 [i]rox_sox[/i] 于 2007-7-3 07:20 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=39101&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
猫

11gh:lol
695 [/quote]

呵呵 给斑竹留了言但n天没有回复。不好意思哦，10多天了。 -_-|||
你问一下月月吧，她掏宝上有个账号，不过好像用的是澳大利亚的端口。gl.

砍楼倒记时：1小时

[quote]原帖由 [i]新新人类[/i] 于 2007-7-15 18:42 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=40573&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
砍楼倒记时：1小时 [/quote]
[color=DarkOrchid]为什么要砍呢? 偶不解.[/color]

[quote]原帖由 [i]Phi_Nono[/i] 于 2007-7-5 22:06 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=39386&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Cat MM 很正义公道的.  I understand your concerns and agree with your views to a certain extent.  Justice cannot stand without the truth (真理) though, so I'm gonna share some of my views on that. ... [/quote]

Nice post.
Just come back from a long trip. too tired to write any comment. But it's nice post.

[quote]原帖由 [i]cat_zhou[/i] 于 2007-7-15 11:54 发表 [url=http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=40536&ptid=14124][img]http://www.windsor8.com/bbs/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


呵呵 给斑竹留了言但n天没有回复。不好意思哦，10多天了。 -_-|||
你问一下月月吧，她掏宝上有个账号，不过好像用的是澳大利亚的端口。gl. [/quote]

- - gd